Do you believe in free will?
By Anonymous | Updated 02/21/25(Fri)10:21:25
Do you believe in free will?
free will is just a word humans use to feel in control over a situation that's let's be honest determined by an algorithm of variables
everything that happens in the future is the result of everything that happened in the past, and also our brains are just organs that control everything we do before we even process the fact that we did it Saw it in theaters.
Your fortune: You will meet a dark handsome stranger No. Is that a Monster Hunter slot machine? I will kill myself. >>12088032
This really isn't the place to ask such a question, you'll just get textwalled by stubborn anons who have no interest in an actual discussion.
The truth is, in practice, it doesn't matter.
Ask yourself: what would change if you knew for a fact that every human has free will? How would this be different than knowing that free will doesn't exist?
As I see it nothing would change.
Free will is, at it's core, a belief. Most people, even if told that there is no free will as an absolute fact, will believe what they want to be true.
As for the philosophical aspect of your question, since we have no way to falsify the claim, it once again comes down to a matter of personal belief . >>12088038 >>12088036
Based response >>12088032
I've never felt in any way nor any situation that I didn't have free will. I don't understand people who say there isn't apart from an ignorance about higher powers and their own brain.
free will is scary shit sometimes and not everyone can face the reality that their choices matter. every addict chose to drink or gamble or whatever at one point. every murderer choose to take a life. no higher power responsible, extenuating circumstances are real but no force outside your head chemicals is making you do anything (including stay addicted).
>>12088107
every human has free will should be the default assumption. the fact that most are too stupid to understand it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. >>12088128
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGN
Your fortune: ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !!!!
>default assumption
How very methodical of you, also proof? >>12088036
if you didn't have free will you could stop consciously participating and your body would go on doing everything it would have done regardless. kurt vonnegut jr explores this in timequake where everyone has to live their choices over again, but essentially you could be asleep at the wheel and the captcha would still get solved. guess what? it doesn't unless you buy a pass and that doesn't happen without you consciously putting in a cc number. >>12088131
I have free will, ipso facto free will exists. >>12088138
An assumption without reasons is just belief.
You're basically saying: I assume free will exists, so it must exist. >>12088135
that's not necessarily true, the physical state of my brain now (the location of potassium gradients across neurons and other deciding factors for neurons to fire) are a result of all of the previous neuron firings in my brain. to put it in less scientific terms, the thoughts that i have now are a direct result of the thoughts that i had a few milliseconds ago, and the thoughts that i will have in a few milliseconds from now are a result of the thoughts that i am experiencing currently. it doesn't seem like there is any space for 'free will' in that description, but also from my perspective i feel like i have free will because i never act in a way that i didn't previously 'decide' >>12088135
You can Google the libet experiments to see an explanation for that.
Granted they aren't absolutely conclusive regarding the existence of free will, but still an interesting theory.
>>12088032
No, and once you understand how reality really works, you'll find it silly that you ever believed in it.
>>12088128
How does the fact that someone's choices matter mean they have free will? Imagine a prisoner on death row is given a chance to free himself by spinning a wheel, and he'll go free if the wheel lands on the right section. Clearly it's the case that the result of the wheel matters. But it made that result because of prior causes: its result depended on the force exerted by the prisoner, and the same amount of force would always result in the same outcome every time. It's the same with the actions of brains, human or otherwise. Everything is either subject to cause and effect (in which case there is no free will) or is completely random like quantum fluctuations (which is also not free will). Sure, one of the stops on the rube goldberg machine is what you call "you", but it's still a deterministic process.
>>12088135
This is like saying: "If the wheel didn't have free will, then it could stop spinning and the spoke would still land on the same section regardless." What you're describing is called epiphenomenalism, not determinism. >>12088143
You're arguing the casual closure of the physical, in which case there is no room for anything else, so of course our actions are governed by cause and effect and free will cannot exist.
I guess my point is assumption of the casual closure of the physical makes any debate about free will moot. >>12088146
i'm just coming at this from a position of methodological naturalism because that's the only thing that is in evidence. i have my own supernatural beliefs, but i know that they won't convince anyone else so i keep them to myself
>>12088139
no I'm saying I experience free will, therefore free will exists. it's on you to try and prove it doesn't, whether for me or you or anyone. you're asking me to argue your side for you. free will is provable. I'm not going to cut my finger off but plenty of people, including indigenous americans have voluntarily cut off their own finger or multiples. there is more modern documentation of a guy who cut off his own arm. shit I've seen gore video of a guy chopping up his own hand. how are any of those possible if there weren't free will - everybody doesn't do it, it's unthinkable to most, but yet some choose to. I put that out as an example of free will and you've yet to say anything but nah-nah-nah na boo boo on the subject.
>>12088143
>because i never act in a way that i didn't previously 'decide'
but you could. you could get up right now walk out the front door without even grabbing a phone and become homeless. you won't but nothing but your own addiction to coddingly is stopping you. moreover you could go and buy a gun and shoot someone. you won't, because nothing is forcing you (free will) but you *could* and you surely recognize that people have gone and gotten a gun, by choice, and shot someone, by choice. if there is no free will and option should be prevented, a choice should be universal at some level. point to anything, any universal thing that you were not able to make a choice for yourself, that thing where noone is allowed to make a choice from free will. I'll wait.
>>12088144
I've experienced zen, most often while driving, where you kind of wake up on a stretch of road and don't know how you got there or wake up and don't know who you are. These have no bearing on free will except that they would be possible at all times if free will didn't exist. Libet can be explained in the simple fact there must be a delay in forming rational thought of reporting, just like there is a delay in actually moving. >>12088159
i couldn't stand up without first deciding to stand up. my muscles wouldn't extend and contract without my nervous system sending electrical impulses to them from my brain >>12088145
>made that result because of prior causes
because the warden gave him the spinny wheel. you're arguing as stupid point, a much more interesting problem is if you fire an arrow and before it hits it must travel half the distance, at which point it hasn't hit and still must travel half the distance, how does the arrow ever arrive?
seriously you niggers should read a goddamn book before trying to philosophize. >>12088152
>from a position of methodological naturalism
could you possibly explain how methodological naturalism proves free will doesn't exist? >>12088163
ergo free will exists. glad we agree. >>12088167
i never said that free will doesn't exist, i just said that everything that the brain does is explained via natural processes, so i don't know where free will would fit into that picture. i am agnostic about its existence which i said >>12088036 here >>12088168
okay, whatever, you aren't interested in listening to me >>12088169
>so i don't know where free will would fit into that picture
it fits in the part where "everything the brain does is explained via natural processes"
also free will doesn't need to be explained, it exists, no one has ever been able to refute that.
>>12088173
you've proven to be very stupid on much less complex topics many times. >>12088176
>free will doesn't need to be explained, it exists, no one has ever been able to refute that
you don't have a sound epistemology >>12088159
>it's on you to try and prove it doesn't
The burden of proof lies with he who speaks. >>12088180
and no one has refuted my proof.
>>12088178
you don't have a brain. if my epistemology isn't sound you have to EXPLAIN how it is not sound. jesus christ you are so fucking stupid. >>12088187
your epistemology isn't sound because you're reversing the burden of proof. if you are making a positive claim (eg. 'free will exists',) you need to present evidence before expecting anyone else to take your side free will doesn't exist because every choice you ever made is shaped by your understanding of the world, which is shaped by circumstances beyond your control
the outcome of the type of person you end up becoming was already predetermined in your childhood by other people who turned you into that
if you weren't the person you currently are, you wouldn't be making the same choices you're currently making
>inb4 no shit sherlock
yes, no shit sherlock, but that proves my point, doesn't it additionally, neuroscience proves that the brain decides things before your mind even processes the decisions you make
before you even knew you made a choice, your brain has already decided that choice
also, if you cut your brain in half you get split brain >>12088202
i love that the term for that phenomenon is 'split brain'. it's silly >>12088164
You must have misunderstood me. Xeno's paradox has nothing whatsoever to do with my point about how all events, whether they take place inside or outside of the brain, are either random or the determined effects of a prior cause, with no room for any third option. Read my post again rather than rejecting it out of confusion and you will understand me.
Furthermore, I have read many books, and there is nothing wrong with being a nigger. the realization that free will doesn't exist is blissful because it removes all responsibility >>12088202
some people seem to be more aware of this than others though, like what if someone ended up developing the self reflection half of their brain enough to process their decisions with enough clarity to decide whether to alter that decision or not
or is the choice to alter their decision just predetermined by an even higher order of logic >>12088434
whether or not free will exists, if you act like a piece of shit, you're still a piece of shit. You're just fulfilling your predetermined fate to be a piece of shit
likewise you can be a good person, and that just means you always were a good person
so even if it's not a "choice", the way you behave still demonstrates the person you are, predetermined or not
it's not a free pass to be a piece of shit (although you always were) >>12088439
everything is already determined right now and you are the supreme being experiencing eternal bliss
you dont move but everything moves relative to you >>12088446
that's where you are wrong, i can be anything i want and there's nothing you can do to stop it
bothered or frustrated? then kindly go fuck yourself cuck 100000%
It is a con to think you have none
Free will is linked to concepts like moral responsibility, praise, culpability, reward, punishment, and incentive. So it *highly* depends on who you are talking to on the subject, and many people will defend their stance on what their interpretation of free will is.
I personally choose to believe free will is not taking what is assigned to yourself in life, and doing something different with it. I have been ostracized for a lot, and my path laid out for me was a very specific one I pushed against.
Even when you make a decision before processing it, if you are like me you afterwards weigh logical pros and cons to make decisions and over time make a lot of logical adjustments. I think the more people that realize how much one person is capable off, the less dread and more creativity we will have in the world. >>12088465
you can try to gaslight me as much you want but i know that free will doesnt exist and neither does god and i'm completely free from all moral responsibility the idea that god will put you into an eternal lake of fire if you put your benis in someones butt is a hilarious joke >>12088476
You can be dreadful as much as you want. If you sit and do nothing you get nothing, and if you push through, you can change a lot and make your life very specifically your own. A plebian would never understand lolollolololoolollooll! >>12088484
dropped image >>12088484
keep struggling trying to hold all that valueless money in your hands jew >>12088465
spikeman says there is no such thing as free will
there is absolutely nothing anyone can do to change the future, OR the past
especially not yosho jews are so fucking cringe, how the fuck can you be attracted to money (an asset whose only usefulness is its liquidity) >>12088492
Noone was talking about money, and I beat the system and have a unconventional self sustained income.
You are the pleb no matter how you look at it you are inferior to Yosho and have fallen for the secret radio. >>12088485 >>12088499
My browser is fugging up >>12088497
Because money is respect and power. >>12088499
there's literally nothing wrong with the secret radio though
it's only bad if you resist it >>12088504
I think you mispelt abstract imaginary thing keeping normies in line through greed and fear >>12088506
nope, its a liquid asset.
no matter how many yachts you own and how many fake social relations you have will not fill the void we are all pawns controlled by something greater >>12088032
Free my nigga Will >>12088506
If you resist it though you can finally have free will >>12088512
except you are the one controlling
>>12088515
why would i want free will? >>12088517
He is nice whale, let him free >>12088032
It seems like I have it and others don't, but it is possible the variables are beyond the scope of my perception that I don't at all, so I tend to not worry about it very much and smile while I imagine myself exercising free will.
Your fortune: （ ´_ゝ`）ﾌｰﾝ >>12088528
no one has free will and this includes you >>12088515
why would I ever want to resist the will of spikeman?? >>12088539
Nah, you probably believe everything has a start and thus can be traced from that cause, and I reject that religion of yours.
Your fortune: ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !!!! >>12088544
>>12088528
It is much more comfy just realizing you can't know and going with whatever you want I suppose. >>12088544
You got it backwards - that's what free willers believe. People who believe in free will believe in the causal agent "I" (ego). In actuality, everything has an infinite amount of causes and everything is connected to everything else. >>12088593
So true, I agree. Hence the whole believing existence is infinite. Strange you think I have it backwards when we agree in a round about way. Like my I I Is OC? Everything is nothing, and nothing is everything.
Your fortune: （ ´_ゝ`）ﾌｰﾝ >>12088608
Assumers have no free will for sure. >>12088615
We are free! To assume what we are told to!
https://youtu.be/V98VbyqQ0yw?t=181 >>12088608
I just wanted to point out a flaw in your reasoning. You said only you have free will but no one else does. It's understandable to have this belief, but it is mistaken. You are actually also included in this ultimate lack of control. It may be hard to wrap one's mind around the fact that the ego simply does not exist and all there is, is The Process. And never has been anything else. >>12088620
Right, but neither of us actually KNOW 100% completely, so your reasoning is moot, as is mine, might as well believe what you want as you want.
Your fortune: ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !!!! why are you anti-freewillers even arguing your point?
by your own logic, it's not like you can change anyone's mind >>12088626
i want to have sex with a hote griller >>12088620
You take great pride in rejecting the idea of ego the flawed idea of a drug addicted weirdo proven wrong with 90%+ of his ideas as an absolute to prove your point which is in itself very silly. You're a silly person. >>12088629
>why
Why not? We don't have a choice. >>12088632
Which drug addicted weirdo are you talking about? >>12088032
In the larger sense no. In the chaotic kind of moment to moment sense yes. >>12088636
Sigmund for sure btw
>take great pride in rejecting the idea of ego
yeah, it's wonderfully futile >>12088637
True, those that indulge in chaos (the phenomena) or are around it are in general more free willed whether they like it or not lole. (I love the irony of this subject honestly)
Your fortune: Bad Luck >>12088629
They aren't arguing their point, they're saying the free will posters have to prove free will exists when it clearly does. It's like saying prove you're eyes work and when you say my eyes work because I can see and they go prove it instead of providing any argument to the contrary. >>12088637
>In the larger sense no.
Back that up and explain it. >>12088640
You're confusing exercise free will with have free will. Everyone has free will, most exercise it by acting like they always have. Just look at lowercase she doesn't have to post retarded shit every thread, but here we are. >>12088644
Why? >>12088647
I mean it is completely possible no one has free will and everything is scripted at a higher incalculable dimension. It is unless some god proves the concept just whatever a person finds comfy believing really, a faith. free will is a christian psyop to justify the cruelty of their god >>12088669
so whats foricing you to be on 4chan and make that post if you dont have freewill
Your fortune: Better not tell you now >>12088690
what's forcing a river to take the path it takes? >>12088690
no one the problem is that there is no "me" its a construct of my imagination >>12088040
>>12088034
Based >>12088699
dubs of wisdom
Your fortune: Good Luck >>12088704
there is your imagination and there is something constructing your imagination, there are your choices and something constructing the belief of you making choices, take every possibility of everything you could imagine yourself to be and subtract it by everything that cannot be, and the result is “me” >>12088032
Yeah, Will did nothing wrong #FreeWill
Your fortune: ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !!!! Freedom of Will does not mean freedom from consequences! >>12088730
It should though, technology just isn't there yet. >>12088716
this is kinda circular and kinda sophistic. its still all made up stuff... anon's river post is another good point.
like how can u believe that ur body is escaping the law of atoms and whatever shit its composing it or believe that such laws are conveniently modified by ur thought process >>12088795
Quantum effect, Mandella effects at a macro level, the fact we can alter atoms. The things we take for granted could make far outweigh the way things actually are who knows if they'll change without warning, who knows if we'll even notice who knows if such reality altering perceptions happen all the time?
Your fortune: Reply hazy, try again >>12088795
it’s really just an issue of language. the word “me” is circular by definition, because it describes the circular act of looking at yourself
Your fortune: Outlook good >>12088805
all there is is myself and literally everything is the circular act of looking at myself I like the Greek idea where some people are absolutely without free will might as well be objects and others craft the very essence of the universe. >>12088843
i do this btw >>12088843
The reason you like that idea is because you imagine yourself to be one of the ones who craft the very essence of the universe. You are something magical and special, unlike those NPCs without free will... a unique, beautiful snowflake if you will. so, this is me... >>12088851
objectoid detected >>12088851
incorrect, I want to be used by a powerful goddess like a toy. >>12088855
You are such a perfect beautiful snowflake I'm getting a boner right now. >>12088862
you're such a retarded assumptive projecting objectoid nigger my vagina is dry and itchy =^( >>12088867
i will lick your pussy or do anything you want lol i will make you feel desired i will let you peg me >>12088032
i only believe in cunny >>12088888
what a complete waste of quints
I hate the world and I want to die now >>12088888
its official, s4s is cunny board, congrats my fren
Your fortune: Outlook good >>12088888
classic esfores moment
Your fortune: Average Luck >>12088860
I think this is the plot of Toy Story 3 >>12088803
i dont kno enough physics to reply to you, but ive never seen a physicist making such arguments to me and ive worked with many... maybe i havent asked enough. id stay it still a huge leap of faith and theres its vry much more reasonable to believe that such processes are independent of my thought patterns
>>12088805
it is indeed a matter of language... id say with no language there would be no "me" u see the point?
Your fortune: Average Luck >>12088980
>id say with no language there would be no "me"
yes but we need language to refer to certain things, so we just make up a "me" on the spot, use it for whichever purpose, and discard it after >>12088888
what a wonderful use of free will >>12088894
lole get fucked haggot
all hail the cunny quints >>12088888
Not nice. i do!! >>12089522
>>12088855
>>12088711
>>12088644
>>12088633
>>12088577
>>12088544
>>12088511
>>12088499
>>12088144
Whole lotta unchecked dubs on the very last page. Come on [s4s] I know you can do better than this >>12092065
posit A you are a slave to dubs and have no free will
posit B you checked all the dubs for yourself in a supreme exercise of free will
Your fortune: ｷﾀ━━━━━━(ﾟ∀ﾟ)━━━━━━ !!!!
King's is a reporter from /s4s/